12.5B rmb is like 1.5% of BYD operating revenue. It's nothing. Western brands range from 1-3%. BYD subsidy is pedestrian, ~400 USD per car. Do you think any western brands can compete with BYD if they bumped unit costs by $400. Rhe answer is no.
Also what dumping? They're selling abroad at 2x domestic MRSP, i.e. $10,000s over domestic price, aka fully covers any subsidy, multipe times over. PRC "dumping" is just delulu innumerate cope at this point. The reality is without subsidies PRC structurally make cars for much less (~50%) than western auto, a few $100 per chassis of subsidies is immaterial to $10,000s of retail price gap.
OPs post was from BYD filings. But parsimonious answer is look at literally every industrial sector PRC involute/value engineered to more and more affordable prices, which they have been doing, for decades, and still remains cheap. Hence entire PRC industry subsidize + dump and take over narrative is mathematically stupid. PRC isn't continuously/ruinously subsidizing global TVs, phones, toy, clothes, machine tools insert whatever category for the last 20+ years in some grand scheme to drive western industry out of business. They are simply good at value engineering, and they have to simply to compete domestically.
Or just do the simple math, if one assume western auto production is somehow competitive with PRC auto if PRC auto simply no subsidies, we are talking about PRC subsidizing each vehicle to tunes of $10000s... PRC made 35m cars last year. For this frankly retarded position to mathematically square, PRC would have to subsidizes ~300B+... aka more than they spend on defense in one sector. The entire position PRC competitive because subsidies is unserious. Even overinflated CSIS study only assumes PRC spend ~250B over 15 years. Like you can come up with the dumbest propaganda numbers on PRC auto subsidies (which CSIS is), and PRC structural production advantage is simply economically unassailable.
> In most countries without 100% tariffs and outright bans Toyota's sales are in decline because of competition from BYD.
Is it because BYD is more reliable or 'just' cheaper?
There are a number of folks for who H/T would be their first pick if not for (a) waitlists and/or (b) price considerations. And there a lot of folks who don't necessarily care if the car will last 10 or 15(+) years because they'll replace it earlier that that, so as long as it's 'good enough' it's fine.
Which is great to throw around numbers, but how are their reliability numbers? Before I throw out my 20 year old Honda for a BYD, how is the 20 year old BYD (or Telsa or Slate) doing? Unfortunately we don't know, though we're coming up on 29 years for Tesla soon.
If enough people are buying a certain car in your country, you can't go too wrong with it. So even if BYD turns out to be less reliable than Toyota, maybe the price is so much lower upfront that it doesn't matter. The much scarier thing is buying a "reliable" car that nobody knows how to repair.
The comment you're replying to is saying that in fair markets, BYD is taking market share away from Toyota even without the proven track record of reliability. Saying "But I wouldn't buy a BYD unless I knew it was reliable" is kind of missing the point.
> Some rich person could just setup a contest with awards and see who shows up, it could be held out on one of those dry lakebeds in Nevada.
As a resident of Nevada - HELL NO. That's BLM land. Not an amateure weapons test site.
If "some rich person" wants to get involved in crowdsourcing weapons research, please do that on private land... so everyone will know exactly who to sue should things go sideways.
Let me be more clear. The activity you're advocating is illegal:
"possessing, discharging, or igniting explosives or explosive material, including binary explosive targets is banned on BLM land in nevada under Federal Land Policy and Management Act (43 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) and 43 CFR 9212.0-6."
The phone number to report illegal activity on BLM land is: 1-800-637-9152.
Maybe this is because I'm not a native speaker, but I'm having difficulty parsing this. What breaks? Do you mean time slows down during the retreat, or does the effect persist afterwards?
Somewhere around 2004 I had an experience at the black hole that still amuses me.
I was digging through the store when I found a full pallet of computer punch cards. As a computer science undergrad, I thought, “ how cool, I want a bunch to use as bookmarks, or whatever”.
I went to haggle with Ed, and he outright refused to sell me any. He said he wouldn’t break up the pallet. I had to buy all or none…
> We currently have 14x nodes of CG480-S6053 ready to ship.
Oh, okay, so this is an ad.
I do still think it's well written and interesting... But if anything, it's just making me more curious about the newest generation of M5 Ultra. (and less and less interested in PCI-E Gen 5 anything)
For the record, I did laugh, I just didn't type it out.
> how do you feel about paying 5% on every token's cost to stripe?
Life is compromise. In a perfect world, I'd love to buy a linux native system comparable to the Mac Studio that could run something in the ballpark of Deepseek V4 flash "fast" at home.
Not only does that not exist, but even if it did I couldn't justify the cost. Between work and home my annual token spend is maybe 3k.
So... paying a 5% fee on a service that allows me to not shell out 10k on hardware at home still seems like a pretty sweet deal.
--
Plus, I still am learning a ton and playing lots. It's hard to imagine anything beating openrouter for that. So much exposure to all the latest LLMs...
There is no author attribution to this webpage?
I feel strongly that I can't take a community challenge seriously if the author can't bother with an author attribution.
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